Lulu adds, “Why does everyone say everything’s going great, when most people are struggling and making no money?”
Our survey see here shows that 60% of you who responded would tell Lydia, the real esate agent, that YES, she can replace her full time RE income in 12 months with network marketing.
And yes, many readers attached various “if, ands, or buts”…
Pretend Lydia’s RE income is $30,000/year. $2,500/mo.
How many people in NM are earning $1,500/mo after one year? Or after 3 years? Or after 5?
Some recent data reported two days ago.
In the UK, a major NM company there reported that ONE person earned $240,000 last year. Out of 39,000 people. ONE person. And that after 26 years. The numbers:
39,000
agents working for MLM company Amoop (fake name)27,000
(71%) had no income11,410
(30%) earned something7,492
(of the 11,410) received average of £13.53 per year (= $28.04)101
agents received 75 per cent of bonuses£116K (=$240,464)
paid to top earner Teensie Lopaat (fake name)26
number of years Mr Lopaat was an agentSource: Evidence at company’s court hearing” -London Financial Times, David Brown, “Marketing group merely selling a dream” 11/27/07
Readers: Of the 27,000 people who earned nothing at all, and the 7,492 who earned $28 dollars a YEAR, how many of those people do you think continued to promote the “easy, anyone can!” like we are in the US?
Here’s today’s question:
Results so far here.
Kim —
You’ve been around the block in network marketing . . . and have probably seen a lot of people you sponsored fail in the business.
Two questions:
1) Out of those who failed, how many put in a 100% effort?
2) Out of those who put forth a 100% effort, how many failed?
That’s really what we need to get at. We need to know, for every 100 people that join network marketing, how many:
A) Didn’t put in the effort but were successful anyway
B) Put in full effort and were fully successful
C) Didn’t put in the effort and failed
D) Put in full effort and failed anyway
Walter Reade (from Wisconsin)
Anyone CAN(=has the capacity) make more than 100K a year! Not only in our industry but in every field.
Does everyone make it? No. It’s less than 1% who are successfull in every field. The same is in network marketing.
So the question is…Is showing the income potential, hype?
More than 9 out of 10 business in 10 years fail. Does that mean that someone should not start a business? Of course not. If someone likes an idea of a business venture and has a few thousands of dollars to invers(risk) in it, he can start his own business knowing that there are more chances to fail than to succeed. But in our business, most people don’t know what the potential is. They don’t know that there are people who are making a fortune with this.
All the negative press is telling everyone that you cannot make it in MLM. So we just give them another point of view. By that i don’t mean that we make it look better and easier than it is.
Big promises is not a good thing. What i do is tell them that there are people making millions and people that drop out without making a cent and that how much money I earn has nothing to do with what they can earn. What really matters is how much they want to earn and what they are willing to do.
Could they replace their income? There are people doing it. Is that a promise? I don’t think so. Is that Hype? Not in my opinion.
But that’s just me.
Theodore from Greece
Ummmm! $30,000 a year is $2,500 a month, not $1500.
The majority of people who join network marketing are part time people. I mean, really – who has enough income rolling in from other sources that they are able to do network marketing full time? Very few I would imagine.
The problem, however, is that most companies are not set up to pay the part time person.
Some companies have you jump through so many hoops to get a check that very few people ever earn one.
If someone can’t sign up and sell product and get paid or sponsor someone and get paid, they will get discouraged and quit.
But…here’s the kicker…by the time they realize there are so many qualifications to get paid, they are hooked on the products (because, after all, MOST network marketing companies have great products) and they stay on the books as a business builder, but are really a glorified customer.
~Roxanne Green~
If I could have voted for both answers I would have …
In a way we are responsible for our results. And, the reputation that mlm has earned because of it.
I really do believe that provided they are working with one of the many quality companies out there, virtually anybody should be able to earn $300 – $1000 per month.
Unless …
Their entire business strategy is running around telling everybody they meet that their opportunity is an easy way to “get rich”.
Just my opinion,
Todd
I don’t think Network Marketing is pretend it’s just that training in this business model is almost impossible to find, it took me 18 years to find you.
My daughter is a Massage Therapist, what if she just went into business “cold turkey”, thinking anyone can do it, and she can make “big income”. To be success in her business she attended Massage School for a year, which included the how to’s of setting up a successful practice, and still it took her a couple years to build her clients.
I think it’s the same with Network Marketing. Being a part of Network Marketing Central and receiving your training is like attending the “Harvard of Network Marketing”.
I watched my older sister build a successful Network Marketing business ($30,000 a year) and all she says is “It just happened people were just drawn to me.” And my other sister earning $1,000 a month in her Network Marketing Business saying, I don’t know what I did I just “Duplicated”. Which was very frustrating for me. Now that I’ve learned about the New School Network Marketing I finally feel like it’s a business I know how to do step-by-step. And best of all I can choose reaching out methods that I feel comfortable with that fit my personality. Want to see what My daughter and I learned from your New School that were doing successfully?
Vicky
http://www.HealthyFastFoodStore.com
Kim,
Are you going to answer Walters Question?
I would love to hear the experience you could bring to this discussion based on what Walter asked you.
The vast majority of brick and mortar businesses fail within one year.
The statistics aren’t that much different for network marketers.
I think anyone with the passion and realistic expectation can make it in network marketing.
I personally think it will take about 3 to 5 years for most people to get their business really going, just as it does in any business.
It’s possible to do it in a shorter period of time, of course, but the average is longer.
We need to know how to effectively analyze the company we are considering joining to make sure they have in place what the distributor needs to be successful.
Brenda Bunney
http://MLMSuccessBunney.com
brendab@brightok.net
Wow!
What is really ”pretend” about NWM is that it is just “sharing”, “inviting”, “attracting”, or anything but selling.
I have recruited and trained commissioned salespeople with various companies over the years.
Very few went on to be successful.
Top salespeople have developed a mindset. Many do not persevere long enough for that learning to take hold.
In NWM we basically sell two entirely different products; our feature product and a distributorship. Old Schoolers like to lead with the business and revert to the product. Most often the product is the easier of the two to sell.
New Schoolers promotes getting customers and developing a stream of income from those sales while sifting for business partners. In my opinion, it is important to remember that just because a customer has a life altering experience with a product, does not mean they are ready or willing to start promoting it to the world.
Like Todd shared before me, for most recruits, the best NWM will be for them is a part-time income source if they work and grow some thicker skin.
To me what is really “pretend” about our industry is to parade the superstar around as the role model that all should aspire to.
Those superstars may have been a diamond in the rough when they entered NWM and worked hard to get to the top. But the point is they were already a diamond. People are put together differently. We seem to understand this concept better when it relates to physical attributes than we do when it is involved with intellectual abilities. The fastest human on Earth is well trained, but was born built for speed and developed the long suit.
Years ago I was taught that NWM was based upon a lot of people doing a little. We all have memorized J. Paul Getty’s quote. At one point in my past, an expensive MLM Mentor I hired told me that she didn’t believe NWM was designed to take the place of a full time job. Wow, I wanted a refund.
One last thing that is truly “pretend” to me is that these superstars got to the top by working less than 40 hours per week. Like Walter says often, it is more like 60 or better hours per week.
Just ‘Sharing”
Tom Doiron
Walter: you ask:
A) Didn’t put in the effort but were successful anyway
B) Put in full effort and were fully successful
C) Didn’t put in the effort and failed
D) Put in full effort and failed anyway
A. Didn’t put in the effort but were successful anyway
Let’s define “successful” as earning $10,000/mo or more.
I’d guess VERY VERY FEW. Probably the same percent as lottery winners.
Most people who earn the big money in our business HAVE put in the big effort – 20+ years, in more than one MLM Or, they found people who had the big experience and the right contact base. Or someone with a big story who got it out there.
Yet, the people in front of the room have historically NEVER told the story behind the story to the new prospects sitting there. No one knows about those years of previous businesses, including mlm’s. That’s all kept back.
In my own first business, the top earner was represented by others and himself, as just a “waiter.” We all thought that for years. Everyone, including J. would say, “Well if a waiter can do it…”
But years later we learned that in fact he had a big history of MLM in his family, and that he had used major players from a previous business to get started. Those people gave him the giant income he had. He too, busted it, but without that particular team, the results would not have been the same. The group of 5-20 were all earning well over 30,000/MO at the time, and J was close to $300,000/mo.
So, bottom line, Except for the rarity of the lottery winner, who doesn’t do much “work” or risk much, I’d say those who are successes in the business have put in the time and had the good fortune to meet and connect with the right people as well.
Note: “Didn’t put in the effort” is in LARGE PART due to the way the business is sold. The most common pitch is: “If I could show you a way to make $5,000-10,000/mo working part time, would you be interested?”
People reply in droves. So they don’t put in the effort, true. But they were lied to and were likely vulnerable, gullible and desperate. But is it fair to blame them for not putting in the effort when virtually every recruiter makes it look easy, anyone can do it? Part time?
Last, sometimes someone wins the lottery. They fall on a right one. We had one person in a previous company like that. She sponsored one person, who went on to become a super star. This lady, a former airline hostess, ended up earning some $20,000/mo because of the huge business this guy did. She never sponsored anyone else, he told us. The man later left the company. Don’t know what happened to her.
B & D. Lots of people put in full time effort and fail anyway. At least the first few times. Sometimes more times. Edison is famous for saying he “failed 1,000 times” at finding the right formula for the light, but he found it. The key for people spending full time or putting in a major effort is the attitude: Are you learning from it, can you adjust and do it differently next time? Do you love what you do enough so you WILL keep on doing it, or not?
C. Didn’t put in the effort and failed? Lots, probably the majority of people who came in the business. But there is a reason they didn’t put in the effort. We like to blame them, of course, But it’s probably more because they were told (and having no experience, believed) it would be easy, that they could easily replace their income. All totally FALSE.
I’d say we in the business have brought the giant failure rate onto ourselves by pretending it’s easy. That’s the only way to get people to sign up and buy in. Only AFTER that do they realize how hard it really is, and often blame themselves for either being so stupid as to fall for that nonsense, or they believe they just can’t do a business of their own.
Yes, I know most businesses fail. Most people fail at everything they do before they get it right, if ever. (That’s why it’s so important to love what you do.) But – and here’s the problem – in what other business does everyone, even those failing, pretend it’s so easy to do?
The dark side of me says they say those things because – well, how else would they get all those people to sign up and pay in, who haven’t a clue what they’re getting into? We collect that fast start bonus, then we blame them for not putting in the effort and failing.
Am I wrong here?
Walter: P.S.
The companies and upline who misled (and continue to mislead) the thousands of people into thinking the business was easy, are VERY VERY fortunate that many of those “business builder failures” have decided to keep on using the products, as just customers.
Right now, based on the info publicly available and reported here over the past two years, 85%-95% of companies revenue comes from the “just customers” – most of whom were recruited into the business with the “easy, anyone can” pitch and have long since quit actively selling or recruiting.
Were it not for those reps-turned just customers, the MLM companies wouldn’t have 90% of their income.
Kim,
I believe Walter was asking for your personal stats in the industry. Are you saying that very few of the people you sponsored were successful?
If that’s the case, did you pretend that it was easy when you signed them up? Knowing you, I would think not.
This is the main reason it’s so very important to have some kind of system where you can get to know people first and not sign up anyone who can “fog a mirror”.
This is why I recommend that anyone who wants to join my business be willing to do a 30 day mental cleanse so they can get to the point where they honestly believe they deserve success.
Let me clarify that statement. When I began in network marketing, if you asked me if I believe I deserve success, I would have said a resounding YES. HOWEVER, every time success began to come, I would sub-consciously put roadblocks in my way and sabotage my success.
I see others who do this on a daily basis. These are people who do not do the 30 day mental cleanse. There again – you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.
Until you believe with every fiber of your being that you deserve success, it will not happen. When my mentor told me that when I finally believe I deserve success, it will come, I called him up and said “Michael, you told me that when I believe I deserve success, it would come – you did not tell me to suit up because it will avalanche on me”.
I THOUGHT I believed I deserved success before, but I really didn’t. I do now though.
Within a matter of months after actually doing the 30 day mental cleanse (it took me 120 days because I’m a little hard-headed at times ;-)), my group grew from 2 to over 40 and my income grew substantially.
I have been recognized by my company and by the top income earners of the company as someone who has reached levels in the company that very few reach with as few people as I had on my team at the time. That’s because I created the relationships with those people before they joined my business and the ones who are the foundation on my team have done the 30 day mental cleanse.
Do I have unsuccessful people on my team? ABSOLUTELY. But, they are the ones who did not go through the 30 day mental cleanse as recommended. Everyone who has gone through the 30 day mental cleanse is growing their business. They are selling product and sponsoring people.
They are the ones who are making enough to cover their products and more. Most people in this industry don’t even make enough to cover their product purchases each month, as you, Kim, have pointed out on numerous occasions.
How important is a system? It’s major.
~Roxanne~
Far be it for me to be provocative, I simply cannot imagine what’s come over me…
So then… we’re all willing participants in what’s perhaps ‘the greatest scam in the world’.
One in which the unwitting (around 9 million of ’em annually, just on the US stats) – are duped by the uncaring.
A scenario whereby most of the majors expressly solicit (or otherwise condone such behavior) the luring of their prey with ‘dream promises’… then hook ’em with ‘it’s easy, of course you can’ into autoships of ‘conspicuous amounts of overpriced product’ – knowing full-well they’ll likely neither personally use nor afford it.
It stinks – to the tune of more than 8,500,000 of those aforementioned 9 mil quitting.
So, what’s to be done?
Maybe the old Conway Twitty song offers a guide…
‘But myself I can’t deceive
I know it’s only make believe.’
😉
[For whatever reason, the comment form isn’t offering the usual options and so, in being fully accountable for my words, I can be reached at Upline.]
Rox:
Thanks for your response. I replied to Walter’s question:
“We need to know, for every 100 people that join network marketing, how many: A-D”
As to your other comments…
People are different in what they need to build a business. No matter how you slice it, they need two things to make money:
Recruits who order stuff, and customers who order stuff.
Everything else is a means to get that done.
Some need a “mental cleanse” as you call it, to get started. I did not. So I don’t offer that kind of help. I’m not interested in doing that, and probably not qualified either. But many trainers do that, and well. Tony Robbins isn’t popular for nothing.
I am not a Tony.
I want to work with people who know the job will be sales and recruiting and are ready for the difficulties on that path. That’s hard enough. Different strokes for different folks.
Interesting how so much of NM has become a big personal development program. Maybe it’s only natural. After hearing from all those people already in it, how easy it is, and then finding out the truth, it’s no wonder so many people seek self-help and blame themselves. 🙂
As to a “system”? I understand the principle of a system. But for NM, after nearly 20 years in the business, I am now suspicious of anyone selling any “proven system.” Why?
1) We have a 95% drop out rate among MLMers, with or without ‘proven systems’.
2) The systems usually earn the upline extra income, unbeknownst to the new recruit paying in.
3)The systems are sold little by little, squeezing more and more money out of unsuspecting, gullible people until finally, a year later, they’re out thousands of dollars and still being told “you fail because you are not working the system.”
Perhaps there are “systems” that work – at least for people who are trying again for the umpteenth time. It’s clear that for different stages of a person’s NM career, and mental development, different things work. Whether it’s someone’s “proven system” or not is another question.
As to my first year in Network Marketing, I did indeed recruit everyone that could fog a mirror. I believed full on what I had heard. Of course nearly everyone but me dropped out. I wrote a post about it last year:
The day I left my brain on the train
Kim,
Sorry – my mistake. I thought you would have answered with your own personal experiences when Walter asked:
You’ve been around the block in network marketing . . . and have probably seen a lot of people you sponsored fail in the business.
Two questions:
1) Out of those who failed, how many put in a 100% effort?
2) Out of those who put forth a 100% effort, how many failed?
——————————
And you are absolutely correct. There is no system that fits with everyone. That’s why I said in a previous comment on a different post that the system I choose to use weeds out those who are not serious and those who are not right for my business. 🙂
Those would be the people who 1. the system is not right for and 2. those who are happy where they are.
The right ones will be where they are supposed to be when they are supposed to be there.
There are many, many out there who do need the personal development because they’ve been sold a line of junk for so long that they don’t know what to believe anymore.
You have many good points. There are many people out there SELLING training and systems that do not work. However, we do not charge for the 30 day mental cleanse (which is just ONE PART of the entire training) or ANY of the training so there is no monetary benefit in it for me or anyone else. There is no cost over and above the cost of maintaining the system, so there is no affiliate commissions or any other monetary benefit for me there either.
Not everyone does things because of money. I, personally, get great satisfaction when I get emails thanking me for changing someone’s life. Emails from people who were about ready to give up on network marketing and then talked to me and changed their minds. THAT is why I do this. Does it lead to some people joining my business? ABSOLUTELY. But that’s not my main agenda. My main agenda is to help people. I get great satisfaction out of that.
And yes, there are many people just like you, Kim, who are skeptical of free. That’s great. Let those people go elsewhere and pay for training.
I’ve learned a lot from you and your blog and that’s all been free. Should I be skeptical of it?
Kim, what you are trying to do here and what we do at MFF are the same things. We all feel that network marketing has a bad rap and that for so long people have been taught the wrong way to do this business. The industry “gurus” that teach you to “make a list of your friends & family” and all of that doesn’t work. The things people have been taught – go out there and scream about your business to everyone, among others – do NOT work. You need to be able to sell your products (at a reasonable price) and ACTUALLY GET PAID for doing so. You should be able to recruit someone and ACTUALLY GET PAID for doing so. If I help people learn how to do that and they find out they can’t get paid until they jump through 50 MORE hoops, they get frustrated and some do join me. Yup.
Those of us who love this industry are passionate about trying to make it better all the way around.
~Roxanne~
If I remember correctly, I think it was discussed that too many companies don’t separate their
customers, only, from their customers/distributors. When a customer,only, signs on as a distributor just to get the lower product price, the company counts them as a distributor. Of course,
they have NO income.
How many of Amoop’s 39,000 agents never intended to be an active agent in the first place. Could it be the 27,000? or a significant portion of them, anyway?
Also, during Teensie Lopot’s 26 yrs in the industry, how many gung-ho and experienced biz bldrs followed him/her from another company, who brought THEIR people along, too. Could be they all arrived at “Amoop” because the comp plan was so much better than their previous company and “the new team” hit the ground running.
I’d like to know the in come of the top earner..NOT in Teensie’s group.
Bottom line, to me is…if the company’s record keeping would be accurately reported, and make a clear distinction between customers, only, and customers/distributors in their “headcounts”, maybe
I’d trust the reporting a little more. More importantly, things wouldn’t look so bad to a person “looking” to get into the business, or those trying to evaluate it, or “put it down”.
Walter asks good questions, yet a HUGE part of the answer about ‘effort’ would require one to DEFINE effort. Like many people, when I was new to the industry my efforts were going in all of the wrong directions – chasing my ‘100 name list’ and approaching the wrong people or even if maybe the right people, then in all of the wrong ways. But did I make a respectable effort? A resounding YES! … and mostly failed anyway. Only now, 10 years later am I able to see through the fog, to understand that when I feel uncomfortable with a situation, to trust my gut and cut it out, no more listening to ‘you gotta get out of your comfort zone’ or ‘it’s a numbers game’ kind of bs.
My goals now surround that effort word, for when our efforts are professional and we train others to make efforts that are better directed, we are part of the solution rather than the problem.
There are lots of quality companies in the industry, yet companies don’t succeed – PEOPLE do.