We hear lots about “proven” systems or “proven” methods.
What do these systems and methods prove, and to whom?
Can we define what that means?
1. What is the system proven to do? And over how much time – three months? A year? 5 years?
2. How much is the system proven to cost (one time or per month)?
3. How long should someone expect to have to use (and pay for) the system to see any results?
4. What skill set has to be mastered by the user? (So one can anticipate the learning curve.)
5. What is the basis of the system? Is it a leads program? A website program? A viral program, or a free report/eBook program?
6. What does the person buying the proven system actually have to DO to use it?
These are some first questions. Any others?
If you are someone talking about ‘proven system’ or words to that effect, tell us these things. Please do not sell us your system with words telling how great it is, or how well it works. Just describe it using the questions above as a guide.
The idea is to give readers some basics about these “proven systems” people so often bandy about.
I’m curious myself.
This will be a long answer to clarify everything.
You said:
Can we define what that means?
1. What is the system proven to do?
Mentoring For Free is the proven system I use. It helps find the people who are right for your business. The ones who aren’t looking for a “get rich quick” deal. The ones who are willing to work to get where they want to be.
And over how much time – three months? A year? 5 years? That, like anything else in life, depends on the person using the system and the effort they put in. It’s not a sign up, do nothing and sponsor people system.
2. How much is the system proven to cost (one time or per month)? $19.95/mo for the lead generation system – The training is all FREE. You do NOT have to pay the $19.95/mo. to use the trainings. You can even plug your entire team into them if you like.
3. How long should someone expect to have to use (and pay for) the system to see any results? Again, that depends on the efforts of the person using the system. I’ll clarify in #6
4. What skill set has to be mastered by the user? (So one can anticipate the learning curve.) When you join MFF, you will go through training. During this time, you will learn how to identify the personality color of the person you are talking to. For example, blues (like myself) are talkers and social butterflies. We see the big picture quickly and make decisions with little or no information.
You will learn to identify the 4 personality colors and how to relate to each one.
We also have a 30 day mental cleanse that we recommend for anyone wanting to use the system. This is where we turn off all of the external “chatter” in our lives. TV, radio, news, etc… is all filling your head with negative on a daily basis. During the 30 day mental cleanse, we read Think & Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill and get together twice on Wednesdays to mastermind what each of us got out of the chapter we’re reading. You also have to send your “homework” (what you got out of the chapter) to your coach.
A lot of people fail in this profession because of mental stumbling blocks. I subconsciously put stumbling blocks in my way for years because of past programming. When I was growing up, my mom always said “We may be poor, but at least we’re good people” and a number of other phrases. To me, that meant that rich people are bad people and poor people are good. So that put a mental block in the way of my success. Every time I would be on the verge of success, I would subconsciously sabotage it. The 30 day cleanse helped me “break through” those barriers and get to the point where I KNOW I deserve success. I am having amazing success in my business now. My group is growing all the time and my checks keep going up.
5. What is the basis of the system? Is it a leads program? A website program? A viral program, or a free report/eBook program?
We give away a free ebook that explains to people why their lack of success is not their fault.
6. What does the person buying the proven system actually have to DO to use it? The first step is free – Go through the free training. This is so someone can become familiar with how MFF operates and see results for themselves in their business as to how they relate to people when they know their color (You would never want to overload a blue with details about your comp plan or you will lose them, however, greens want more data, more data, more data and suffer from analysis paralysis most of the time).
When you give away the free eBook, you have to be of the mindset that you will help anyone in any company. You can not just jump into using the system when you haven’t gone through the training. You must be willing to help anyone to find the ones who are looking for a change and want to do what you do. You must be willing to create relationships with people even though there may be no monetary benefit from that particular person you are helping. It’s a process. If you don’t like the free training, you are not the type of person who will effectively use the system. I have people who have downloaded my ebook and immediately signed up for the pro version without even knowing what was involved. For these people, the system does not work. You have to go through it properly. If you’re not willing to do that, don’t even bother getting started or you’ll just waste your $19.95/mo.
I have a lots of people that downloaded my free eBook.
One gentleman entered the system over a year ago. He went through the trainings and learned the personality colors. His business took off and then he realized that he wasn’t getting paid on the volume he brought in. He didn’t “balance out” his other legs because a couple people cancelled their orders and he wasn’t aware of it. His check was less than 1/4 of what he expected to get. Once he realized that the couldn’t get paid on all of his volume, he was upset. The company did that to him. MFF educated him at the beginning that he needed to read and understand his policies and compensation plan. He found a couple things in the policies that concerned him, got angry at MFF for having him read it and decided to work that company anyway. My role is to help him be successful, so I did that. His group was growing using methods that MFF taught him. He didn’t read far enough into the comp plan to find all of the hoops and ended up with 1/4 of what he expected. He then asked to look at my company and ended up joining me. This process took a year.
I have another person who entered the system about a month ago. She read her policies and realized that in order to continue getting a check, she needed to generate 2 NEW sales every month. This means she can never retire. She was devastated because she wanted to build a secure financial future and RETIRE. This is what mlm companies tout that you can do. She ended up taking a look at my company and joining me. This process took about 2 weeks.
Some people are in good companies and just need help. These people may never join my business, but I am happy to help them also to find the right ones. Once you go through the free trainings and begin using the paid system, you must be willing to do that too.
Sorry this is so long, but I’m glad you asked the questions. I’ve had lots of people asking me these same questions and I am glad for the opportunity to answer them here.
~Roxanne~
W. Edwards Deming is known as “The Father of The Quality Evolution” and was a manufacturing and quality control guru who helped Japan rebuild after World War II.
In one of his books, Deming once said, “People want to succeed. They want to do a good job. They don’t like to turn out lousy work. If your people are consistently failing, it’s not their fault – it’s your system’s fault.”
Too often in Network Marketing, “The System” is touted as as ‘perfect’ or ‘proven’. People are taught that all they have to do is “plug in” to ‘The System’ and success is assured.
Yet there is a 95% drop out rate and for those who remain, only an extremely small minority experience any true financial success.
As Kim says, “Don’t leave your brain on the train.” Personal experience is a tough and hard way to learn the truth about many of these so called “proven” systems.
Paul Eilers
http://www.PurpleGreenPops.com
I think the only proven “system” in MLM is – Contact, Invite, Present, Follow Up, Sponsor and Duplicate.
How we each go about doing that is going to vary from person to person and downline to downline.
I’ve never seen a “Downline Building System” that works for the long haul. It may bring people in but getting people to stick and stay is totally different.
I think that is largely because these systems feed on “fear of loss” and “sense of ugency” with no real establishment of relationships and need.
I’m curious about the “Systems” of others as well!
EXPECT Success!
Jackie Ulmer
Street Smart Wealth
Hi Kim,
No proven, schmooven system from me, but I sure have smoked up some cash on some in the past. Most want to sell you their branded leads as well.
Just returned to my office from a seminar sponsored by Referrals4Life.
Ironically they offered a definition for a “system” today. Here it is. SYSTEM: an accurate, established procedure that works every time for everybody who works the system.
Here is my take on MLM systems. They are designed to capitalize on an industry full of neophytes in sales and marketing who have yet developed calluses to rejection. These systems are a network marketing company unto themselves which is parasitic to your downline. Most are run like affiliate programs and you can earn back your monthly subscription cost by enrolling team members.
The problem I see is people don’t join a “system”, they team up with a person. So many are searching for the silver bullet and the fully automated system that even deposits your commissions into your designated account. You can just hide behind your computer and never talk to a soul.This network marketer doesn’t believe in Santa or either of the aforementioned. They are a myth, a fable, or whatever suits you.
I am eager to hear from our community on this topic. Will they be able to tell and not sell?
Listening,
Tom Doiron
Hat’s off to Jackie! Not really a system, but more a cycle. Contact, Invite, Present, Follow Up, Sponsor and Duplicate. Simplicity is a beautiful thing and it takes a master to see it among all the clutter. Thank you, Jackie.
A well know and respected trainer, (good associate to Ms. Stud)emphasizes that the most important skill a network marketer needs to master is inviting.
Come and see,
Tom Doiron
1. What is the system proven to do? And over how much time – three months? A year? 5 years? The Virtual Office System (VOS) provides you access to a database of people who have filled out an extensive health survey, provided you contact information (name, address, phone, email) and given you permission to contact them (permission marketing). Includes training on system and sales.
2. How much is the system proven to cost (one time or per month)? Cost starts at $19.95 per month for system. Cost per profile (lead) varies starting at $1.20 each.
3. How long should someone expect to have to use (and pay for) the system to see any results? I got results the first month. I’ve paid for all sorts of lead systems and have remained with this one because it works for me.
4. What skill set has to be mastered by the user? (So one can anticipate the learning curve.) Basic computing skills. Good phone skills. Attendance at free training on system and sales will shorten the curve.
5. What is the basis of the system? Is it a leads program? A website program? A viral program, or a free report/eBook program? It is a customer acquisition (leads) system. Focus is on customers.
6. What does the person buying the proven system actually have to DO to use it? Shop for the leads they want. Download them. Call them. Talk in a human voice and lead with their own hot button.
Info on site is http://www.virtualofficesystems.com . Also, watch Mark’s video there (New School all the way).
Additionally, the term “proven system” is starting to get old for me. It seems to be the newest “catch phrase” and is already overused. Just like “duplication”.
Paul is so right in his comments to this post. And Tom, how did I do?
I wonder if Roxanne realizes how her Proven System sounds to others?
Here’s my take.
Roxanne’s comments on Kim’s blog started out pretty good today and ending up showing how great she and her company are because they point out the bad things about every company.
If there were only one good network marketing company, the industry must be in trouble.
Sorry but I don’t see how Mentoring For Free “proven system” helps people with their business. I mean Roxanne said that is her Proven System to find people right for her business. That shows me that they wait till someone is at their lowest and then pounce with the “Best Company, and best comp plan, best policy, etc. I’ve heard what they say, the first thing is Let’s go over your comp plan to see if you are being paid fairly, etc.
Why would they care what every other company is doing?????
It’s like my smart husband says, Just keep your eyes on your own paper…
Anonymous,
Had you READ my post, you would have realized that I don’t tell anyone anything bad about their company. I tell them to read the contract that THEIR COMPANY wrote and UNDERSTAND how they get paid.
How is that any different than Kim telling you you need to know the numbers to make a certain amount? If YOUR company makes you jump through hoops to get paid, how is that MY fault? If your compay says you can never retire, how is that MY fault? If your company says you have to have two NEW sales every month how is that MY fault?
Yes, I educate people on what to look for so THEY don’t get burnt. I have a LOT of people who are in good companies that won’t steal their check. I have a lot of people who don’t have to jump through hoops to get paid. These people are happy where they are and I help them be successful in THAT company.
Next time please read before you slam me and at least sign your name.
Have a wonderful day!!
~Roxanne~
PS to anonymous,
I have over 400 people who have downloaded my eBook. Out of those 400, about 20 have joined my business.
Those 20 are awesome people who have ALL asked me about my business. I have never brought it up first with any of them and always tell people stop, take some time to think about it and then we’ll talk.
The majority of them have joined and are finally being successful themselves. THAT is what I do. These people have been struggling for years and finally found somewhere where they can make money.
The rest are happy where they are and I have a lot of new friends. No one is EVER pressured or even encouraged to leave their company and come to mine. If they do that, it’s THEIR decision, not mine.
Anyone who knows me will tell you that you are way off base.
~Roxanne~
Hey Roxanne don’t take this a personal shot to you.
You say what you do is not different than what Kim teaches and I have to disagree. Kim doesn’t focus only on the pay plan, policies and procedures. Her training is well rounded and covers many aspects in network marketing.
Could you promote your company and product with the same results without using the Mentoring For Free proven system like other companies do, or is this the only way?
I was recently invited to download the Mentoring for Free e-book. When I didn’t do it right away the individual who had invited me emailed me a second time and asked if I’d had trouble downloading as she didn’t see my name in her back office. (So we download the book and are placed in a list in a back office.)
I was mildly curious and so I entered my name, email address and phone number, which is required to get the book. I looked over the material quickly and figured I might get back to it and look closely at some future time. End of story, or so I thought.
The next day, a Saturday, I received a voice mail message from the Rep who invited me to get the e-book. She said she was calling to set up a schedule for my free mentoring. I was surprised to get the call because I hadn’t noticed information about that part of the program anywhere in the e-book. (Perhaps I missed it.)
I emailed the Rep and told her that I couldn’t accept her offer because I felt completely uncomfortable with her investment in time when she would be getting nothing in return. I also told her that I have a friend who is in my downline and who is also a Rep with Vita Mark. If I ever were to join Vita Mark it would be with my friend, of course. End of story or so I thought. In addition I told her that I am currently already involved with two different MLM companies and very happy with them. End or story or so I thought!
On Monday the same Rep called with her upline sponsor and left a long and detailed message on my voice mail. But first they had called my friend, whose contact information I had entered at her request. (I had emailed her asking if there were any advantage to her if I got the book from her … it turns out she is not in the Mentoring for Free downline and was curious to see the book herself. That’s how the two Reps had her contact info.) So they called my friend while she was at work and she had no idea what was going on or who they were!
The upline sponsor did all the talking in their message to me. They said that they had called my friend and that they had ascertained that, “She said she’s using the products but not building a business” and they addressed each of my objections and talked on and on about setting up the schedule for mentoring and asked that I call back to do that and with questions about the Vita Mark compensation plan. This message was three minutes long.
Honestly, I was appalled and angry with the deceit. I now run the other way when I see any mention of Mentoring for Free. It’s a thinly disguised recruiting tool and is totally OLD SCHOOL because it leads people on and is not honest. I’m really sorry it’s out there and being used as a network marketing tool.
Anonymous,
I didn’t take it personal, however, you did direct the shot personally to me. If you got involved with someone who was working the system wrong, I apologize for them. They shouldn’t have EVER slammed your company. It’s only our job to educate people. What people do with that education has to be up to them.
You said:
“You say what you do is not different than what Kim teaches and I have to disagree. Kim doesn’t focus only on the pay plan, policies and procedures. Her training is well rounded and covers many aspects in network marketing.”
We teach people methods to brand themselves. We teach how to get traffic to your websites. We do the 30 day cleanse. We teach the personality colors.
It’s very well rounded as I explained in the first post.
You also asked:
“Could you promote your company and product with the same results without using the Mentoring For Free proven system like other companies do, or is this the only way?”
HHMMM…”like other companies do”. Kim asked what proven systems people are using and I’ve only seen three actual answers (me, Jackie and Carol). Must be most companies don’t have proven systems for people to use. Or at least not many who come here. Feel free, Anonymous, to post your proven system instead of slamming mine.
I have 20 people from MFF and 24 from other avenues. Not all are working at the same level. The learning curve is much longer with people new to MLM. They do know that up front, though.
Then I have customers that did not come from MFF and customers that did come from MFF. None of my energy drink testers are from MFF. Quite a few of them have already placed orders for Crave
Hope that helps answer your questions.
~Roxanne~
Ann,
I’m very sorry that happened to you. We are NOT taught to do business that way.
As with any system, there will be people who use it the wrong way. We are specifically told to NEVER under any circumstances, pressure anyone into anything. The system works because there is no pressure.
It is open to anyone to use and I guess that’s part of the problem. I insist that people go through the training themselves before they use the system. That way they will know NOT to do those things.
Please accept my apologies on behalf of the MFF system for this person. What they did was not right. I agree with you.
~Roxanne~
Kim this is one of your posts I found very interesting and hoped to learn from. I deleted my first comment because I didn’t have anything helpful to say, it was just saying how I hoped to be enlightened. Well here I am again but now I want to say I’m with Carol saying the phrase “proven system” is starting to get old for me. It does seem to be the newest catch phrase.
I know there are proven systems but, for me it’s all still a test. I’m working with a newspaper I distribute, print ads in my local papers, post cards and other ROM. It’s proving to be effective for me but no guarantee to work for the next person. My proven system has been to do something everyday, test many venues and always be myself when presenting the product or business.
I’ll keep testing and do what works for me.
Robin
In order to be a proven system, it has to apply to everybody. It’s like a theory, which is more than proven after it has gone through extensive tests. An example would be Einstein’s Theory of Relativity or Newton’s 3 Laws of Mechanics. I would never say that this system is proven, but I would say that it has worked for me, but we don’t know the outcome on how it would work for someone else. If we say that it’s a proven system, we also have to live with that statement by making sure that it works through their downline or their customers.
Be careful what you say when you say a proven system. Someone will always find a way to take it apart.
My two cents…
Sidney
http://www.e-dental-plus.com
Even without the experience I had with Mentoring for Free, I believe it is OLD SCHOOL because it offers free mentoring, but the bottom line is that it’s a recruiting tool, and that is not stated openly. Honestly, would anyone take the time to personally mentor individuals if recruiting them was not a possibility? Even when done the way it’s ‘supposed to’, it’s manipulative.
Ann,
You’re entitled to your opinion, however calling it manipulative is outright wrong and I feel I must set that record straight.
Please read my first post.
Some people are in good companies and just need help. These people may never join my business, but I am happy to help them also to find the right ones. Once you go through the free trainings and begin using the paid system, you must be willing to do that too. (THAT means helping people who are happy where they are)
I understand the law of reciprocity. I may not monetarily benefit from helping these people who are happy where they are, however, there is a benefit. I now have lots of people to mastermind with. If I’m stuck on a problem or something, I can call any number of them (IN OTHER COMPANIES) and brainstorm ideas with them. I do it all the time and they are happy to hear from me because I’ve helped them FOR FREE. Because it’s who I am.
Think back to when Kim hired me. She did that because I was simply helping people FOR FREE on her calls and asked me if she could hire me. I didn’t say “I’m not going to help you people unless I get paid” That would be a horrible thing to say or do. I would think that’s much worse than helping people for FREE. LOL.
Don’t let a few bad apples spoil the whole lot. It’s a great program and has helped a LOT of people in all different companies.
Can we stop the MFF slam fest now please? YES – there are people who are not of the right mindset to be using the system. However, most of us are of the mindset that I am. We will help anyone in any company.
If I slammed every company that I ran into an “old school” rep from, I’d be slamming every company in the world.
~Roxanne~
Robin: You wrote: “I’m with Carol saying the phrase “proven system” is starting to get old for me. It does seem to be the newest catch phrase.”
I don’t know how new it is, but just the words “proven system” (PS) seem manipulative, because they do NOT work for most people. It’s not an independent system.
People are required to work any PS and many don’t want to when they find out what it is. Some ‘systems’ are not a good match for people, others had NO IDEA how long it would take to make any money at all, or how much it would cost in energy and money to set up a business like this.
But they came in because they liked the sound of that proven system.
In the end, the people making the most money are probably those selling the proven systems. Who do you think will make the most money selling the MLM death ‘proven-to-explode-your-business-in 2008’ program? Or the ‘Renegade’ program?
The owners of any ‘proven’ system get income for the leads, the affiliate fees, the eBooks, etc. and those who offer it, who get their leads or whatever on the house or at big discounts, or they participate in the affiliate fees for spreading it around.
Selling the proven systems seems to have become a whole separate business in and of itself.
People NEED help learning how to do NM, and the intentions of many trainers are good. It’s the ‘proven system’ verbiage that promises implicitly results that have not happened and do not happen now, for the great majority of folks, for whatever reason.
If the sellers of the systems blame the people for not working them, fine. But then the sellers must let the prospects know up front that most people can’t or won’t do the proven system, so for most, it’s proven to be a system they can’t/won’t do.
I have a very simple internal proven system for myself for long term projects where the end is not at all clear, much less likely to be successful (like my new little start up):
Love what I do. Do it for me first, everyone else, second. Own what I do. Experiment. Believe nothing unless I test it and it is good for me. Would do it if I didn’t get paid. Willing to be in it for the long haul -10-20 years. Pace myself each day and plan to do so for years to come. Expect no manna from heaven, and expect no big hitters to appear one day and make me rich. Soon I’ll be good. Eventually, remarkable. What if it does work?
Buzz Buzz.
Carol, I thought your post was great. You clearly explained the program, without any “hooks”. Yeah!
There is a lot of stuff out there today that is fringe. When I get the “12 point free brake inspection” with my oil change, am I so naive to think they are not trying to up-sell me? Should I be surprized when they find a deficiency?
I am in accord with Ann that such practices are still deceptive marketing regardless of how commonplace they are. I wonder if our economy could survive without such practices?
Who’s zooming who,
Tom Doiron
As long as there are “sales” there will be “advertising” for the product or service. It is the words used in the advertising that matter. I have used and paid for many “proven systems”, which might have worked for some but not for me. I found one that works for me and I’m willing to pay for this particular service.
I’m willing to listen to another’s method of selling and see if it fits with my personality and the way I want to work my business. Does someone else make money when I use their system? Sure, they have invested their money in their business and hopefully are making a profit. There is nothing wrong with that. I agree the “rub” is touting it will work for everyone. Using the term “proven system” just reeks of hype. Sort of like “it’s easy, anyone can do this”. Use my system and you’ll be making money in no time. Blah-Blah-Blah.
Tell me what you’ve got. I would ask all the questions Kim posed and decide for myself if it was something I could use.
P.S. I’m also tired of “get plugged-in” (I’m an individual person, not a light bulb) and “duplicatable” (why would I want to be cloned into someone else when I’m happy being me).
http://yourlife.networkmarketingcentral.com