Update…
So writes Donna Johnson to me today, after seeing the post, Arbonne rep tells newbie: “Buy big; dump it on eBay”
Donna’s the top income earner at Arbonne, and she has reason to be concerned – no, she isn’t interested in a quick buck. She doesn’t need a quick buck. She’s way more interested in maintaining what she and her company have…
Will keep you posted on what they’re doing about the eBay dumping and listings, click here, and the oversized order problem.
Power to the people!
The internet works!
Yeah Donna and Arbonne.
Even though I am not personally with Arbonne, I respect who they are and what they have done within the industry.
When a company has strength and integrity, it raises the bar for us all and makes things easier all the way round!
The more people who have a good experience with the company they choose, the fewer people we will have talking badly about the industry.
EXPECT Success!
Jackie Ulmer
http://www.streetsmartwealth.com
Well said Greg!!!
It’s heartwarming to hear from so many networkers who are passionate about doing this business with integrity!!! The future looks bright for networking!
Please keep us updated on this matter. Arbonne has such a strong history in the network marketing world. I’m glad to know that the company is taking their good reputation seriously. Housecleaning can be seen as something good!
Take care–
K
Admonishing people for selling on eBay will NOT stop the problem. The problem is FRONTLOADING. Stopping people from selling on eBay will not solve the problem, it will just keep it out of the public eye.
The problem is that these companies (sometimes uplines) encourage people to buy more and more product, then puppy dog the product out and HOPE they can sell it. Look at the comments in the previous post of how many people this has happened to. If that many people have been taken by these types of practices just here on Kim’s blog, how many others are out there?
This is the year 2007!! Why would a rep have to purchase ANY product??? I purchase product for my own use and that’s it. I may have an extra box of this or bottle of that, but it’s something I was going to use anyway and may sell it locally. After the first bottle/box that is sold locally, I give them the website address and they can order there. There are situations where people don’t have internet access. THAT’S OK. AGAIN, it’s the year 2007 and I can get their money and place the order for them. VOILA – no handling product.
So, in conclusion, going after the eBay sellers will NOT solve the problem, it will just mask it. Why encourage people to order more than they can use? If they want to sell it, sell it from the website. OR let them purchase SAMPLES to puppy dog out.
Arbonne is NOT the only company this is happening in. It’s rampant in this industry. I work with people every day who have been talked into taking a second mortgage on their homes or maxing out their credit cards on product. TO DO NETWORK MARKETING!!! There is no reason for that kind of thing.
If your company or upline is encouraging you to purchase more than you and your family can use in a month that’s a BIG red flag.
Roxanne Green
Mentoring For Free
I think it is great that they are going to do something about it, but… What about the people that have already suffered because of these tactics? What becomes of them?
Perhaps I am a bit cynical as much as I try to be more optimistic, but does this really come as a surprise to Donna? Has she really been unaware that this was happening in her company? Or, now that it has been stated so blatantly, she wants to now try and protect the Arbonne name?
Laura Kane
http://www.lbkscents.com
Glad to see that this blog got someone’s attention. I agree with Roxanne – the problem is frontloading – if people weren’t frontloading there would be no product to be dumped on ebay (assuming that active consultants followed policy of not selling on ebay as well).
This is not a new issue to Arbonne (as well as other NMCs, e.g., MK) as evidenced by K2’s reference to her prior posting with Donna. In these days of the internet and with the whole idea of NM being that you can have product shipped directly to the customer, you SHOULDN’T have to carry inventory (other than a few odds & ends). IMO, the problem in Arbonne started with the “Puppy Dog”/REsults approach where you hand out full-size product kits ($266 RV each) along with samples for clients to try. There was a big stink last summer over the hygiene of such an approach (since potential clients were opening the product or consultants were using the kits as ‘samples’) as well as the fact that some lines were encouraging new consultants to order up to 20 of these kits to get started! Arbonne still offers online (as of today) a “REsults set” with a set of 4 anti-aging kits (RV $1265 for all 4) or a 4-pack of their 2 other main skin care lines. $266 demo kits (even $172 after the 35% discount) still seems a bit steep to me. Supposedly, the advantage of this is that you could get away from the ‘party plan’ approach, and just drop the kits off for a couple of days, then pick them up later. I think this contributed to the whole front-loading problem because the consultant uses commissionable retail product as demos (vs. ‘bus aids’ samples that don’t get credit for commission), making it more attractive for new consultants to start getting volume and promote more quickly.
Another problem is the trial District Mgr qualification program that has been extended periodically a few months at a time for well over a year due to its “success” (qualify for DM in your first month with $5000 in ‘sales’) hmmm, like nobody is noticing that the sales are mostly in the consultant’s own number and that’s not frontloading? Wow, no wonder they’re having historical growth!
I was just so disheartened to see what was happening with this company whose products I love, and the fact that my upline tried to just sweep it under the rug when I started asking questions sealed the deal for me.
p.s., I’d be concerned too if there was so much bad press surrounding my $400K/month commission!
We are all independent business owners.
Those who use unfair tactics will in the end come tumbling down.
There’s always some bad apples, and they can ruin it for everyone.
I’m aware of some very hardworking, honest, Arbonne reps.
I wish them well in their pursuit(the company)to get this under control.
We all need to cheer them on.
And they do have a wonderful line of products!
Arbonne does have a wonderful line of products (which is the ONLY reason I considered getting involved), and consultants who are truly working to build an ethical business (like I was!). The problem is the company does nothing to support their reps and creates an atmosphere that fosters frontloading (the comp plan and virtually no buy-back). And although I too, am hoping that their “unethical tacticts will catch up with them” they unfortunately end up trashing other people along the way.
Interesting that all those that claim to be ‘honest’ Arbonne reps post anonymously on this blog. Geez, if I didn’t know better, I’d think the last post was my ‘sunshine blowing’ upline with a nearly identical response to the email I forwarded her yesterday with the link to this blog.
Oh, and have a great day!
Well, here is an Arbonne rep that isn’t afraid to post with her name attached.
Arbonne is an amazing company to work with. The products are outstanding, the leadership is top notch, the training is everything you could imagine and then some, the compensation plan is fair and stable, and the system we have to build our businesses is good and just. Now, with that said, are there people out there that try and twist things to their own gain? Yes, just like anywhere else.
Our REsults system is an awesome way to do business from both a client and business person’s perspective. People really appreciate being able to try the products before they buy them and get the full experience. As a business person, it saves me money from buying so many sample packs, that frankly no one really ever tries, as well as keep me focused in follow up (because that is where the money is made, right) due to me not wanting to leave my $173 kit somewhere. It’s not the end all be all, but it is one way we build our business. So why would you need/want to purchase kits? To have as many people as you can at a time trying your product. Now, does it take 20? Absolutely not! 4-8, yes. That is a good number for you to be able to handle in a weeks time (demoing and follow up). Remember, these kits are never meant to be sold. These are the little guys that work for you. :>)
Kathleen, I think you have your facts and figures mixed up. The trial DM qualification, which actually is now permanent, states that to put you into qualification to become a DM in your first month, you need to have $1000 retail ($650 wholesale) under your own id. This could be what you purchased to start your business as well as items that you “sold” through your id. Arbonne wants to make sure that you are using the product yourself as a testimony and that you have enough product to run your business with. This $1000 retail under your id is required period for you to become a DM whether it happens in your start month or over the whole DM qualification period.
The whole eBay thing is annoying. I do wish the company would crack down more on that. But just like the government issues, I am sure that they are working on it and we just don’t know about it. They do lose out too because it just cheapens their product.
Anyways, as a very satisfied Arbonne rep, I wanted to put my 2 cents in. I’m sorry some of you have had bad experiences, but I have had nothing but good ones, and no, I am not a top income earner, or even close to it for that matter, but I’m focusing on it (that’s the Secret :>). My business has had its share of ups and downs, don’t get me wrong, but I’ve always had a very positive, encouraging, nuturing and growing environment to support me, and that environment flows from the top of the company all the way down (my line at least).
Healthy Approach
I AM an Arbonne rep and I can tell you that of the 13k reps who are actually working the business a large portion are working it ethically and with integrity according to Arbonne policies. Yes, I’ve heard stories of the crap being told to new people about having to buy large quantities of products. Those individuals will be dealt with harshly by Arbonne if they are discovered. Those unethical individuals will fail in the end and what they are putting out there will come back to them. I’ve seen it happen. Consultants who I met ten years ago who I know violated policy and ethics, are no longer in the business.
Because Arbonne’s compensation plan is one of the industry’s best, lots of people are getting out of their other MLM companies and getting into Arbonne and bringing with them “their way” of doing business. For every one of those unethical, front-loading, heavy recruiter types, please be assured that there are 9 ethical and honorable consultants working the business according to Arbonne policies.
There is no need to front-end load in Arbonne ever. For those who say that the company doesn’t do anything to support their reps, of course, from my perspective, that’s just not accurate. The company does A GREAT DEAL.
Why does the company allows representatives to buy more than $3,000?
If the company doesn’t change its policies on front-loading, E-bay ex-distributors would continue to sell their products to make up for the money they lost in the deal.
This front end loading thing has been going on a long time, Arbonne and Donna know it.
I joined back in July ’05 with the “business builder” package because “you’re serious about my business…aren’t you?” This had been going on for a full year before I started, and it’s still going on!
The upline that started the “puppy dog” system were not heavy hitters either. I know one of them had never been in network marketing before!
The compensation plan is a stair-step breakaway, a terrible compensation plan for the part-time network marketer, of which 95% are.
For example if you don’t make your numbers within 2-3 months, you lose everything and have to start from scratch again! Not easy for a part-timer and very stressful.
This is why people sign up with such enormous amounts, because all they have to do is “get 2 more people to do the same and they are at the next position”.
But what also happens is, if those people “under” you sell more than you and “pass you up” you lose a large portion of volume and you check greatly drops, i.e. breakaway. So you’ve got to go out and find some more people to sign up.
Arbonne has turned into a recruiting factory plain and simple and yes, it is sad.
Suzanne
Network Marketing the Right Way
Jennifer, taken directly from the IC area of Arbonne’s website, the qualifications for “DISTRICT MANAGER
One, two or three month qualification options
Minimum $1,000 Personal Retail Volume accumulated in the start month.
AND
Minimum $2,500 Retail Volume in the last month of the qualification period.
OR
Minimum $2,500 Retail Volume in the first and the last month of the qualification period.
AND
Minimum $1,000 Personal Retail Volume accumulated in the qualification period.
$6,000 Retail Volume in one month, $6,000 Retail Volume over two months, or $7,500 Retail Volume over three months.”
Note that one option is to do $6K in ONE MONTH (I mistakenly said $5K in my previous post). Of that $6K, only $1K HAS to be in your own ID but there is no check in place to ensure that the ENTIRE $6K isn’t all in your own ID, and that’s the problem if people are encouraged to buy their way in at that level (and dump later if they can’t sell).
Arbonne does do a great deal for their consultants in terms of available training, internet support, etc., but IMO, not on the frontloading issue.
This is good news for us all! I am not with Arbonne, but network marketing is a professional business and we all need to support each other in being professionals so that as Kim has taught us, we can be seen as a professional industry to those not in network marketing.
I love this industry and if we can all say to ourselves and the world that we have value in our products and our business, we all win
Love you Kim and love you network marketers!
Signe Nichols
http://www.wealthbuildingkit.com
How outrageous this situation is. I am so glad that Kim has this blog so that we all know what is going on. I took a look at the Ebay site and it was so sad to see so many items being “dumped”.
I sure hope that Donna will be able to put a stop to this.
Just one small note to the ‘thread’ started by Kathleen re: all $6K under your own id: if you work Arbonne as a party plan, which is how it started, you would be placing orders under your own id – and making the 35% markup.
As an Arbonne rep, I’m hoping that the company will be revisiting it’s policies and comp plan to make it better for the way people are wanting to do the business now, i.e. puppy dog.
I’m sharing the links for these posts with my upline and downline.
Thanks,
Carrie Flaten
Member NMC
carrie.networkmarketingcentral.com
As an Arbonne rep who has found a product I love madly, I am not ready to jump ship because of some of the unfortunate negative actions that a few bad apples are promoting. I believe that if I operate with integrity, honesty, and by being genuine (not hypey) my business will grow as it is meant to. This is not a get rich quick scheme. It is called net WORK marketing for a reason. People who think they can front end load and get bigger better money faster will only lose out in the end – then they are the very same ones who turn around and bash Arbonne’s ethics and procedures. A fool and his money are easily parted.
Kim has taught me to stick with what I am passionate about & that’s what I intend to do. I am also very fortunate to have an upline who believes that getting customers and selling product is the heart of our business.
As with any network marketing company,it is important that you read your policies and procedures and understand your compensation plan. I am going to use Arbonne as an example, but this is not a “bash Arbonne” session.
EVERY COMPANY has Policies & Procedures and you agreed to abide by them when you joined the company. Most people don’t read them when they join, but you can read them now and know what you’ve gotten into. It’s much easier to “play by the rules” when we know what the rules are.
As Suzanne said, Arbonne is a stair step breakaway comp plan. This means you will always be building or your downline will reach the same level you are at eventually and your income will STOP. You can never retire.
Also, these Arbonne reps who are still working the business making all of this money are NOT working it because they WANT to, they are working it because they HAVE TO. They HAVE TO because it’s a stair step breakaway comp plan and they HAVE TO because they must have ONGOING support to their downline AND must accompany their downline to Arbonne meetings, training sessions and other functions. Read the Policies and Procedures for clarification. They can’t retire.
HHMMM isn’t the goal of network marketing to create RECURRING income? To build it once, build it big and RETIRE? I thought it was. Did you think it was? Were you promised that? Just like I was?
In addition to all of the frontloading going on, there are many other things that reps are not told when they join a company. Please, please, please READ THE POLICIES & PROCEDURES.
If your policies say AGREEMENT TERMINABLE AT WILL – RUN.
There are lots of hidden “gotcha’s” in the Polices of many companies out there. Especially the older companies. Understand the industry you are in and understand what the rules are so you can play by them. Just be informed. Know what you are getting into. Don’t get caught in the trap of some of these companies.
Roxanne Green
Play By The Rules
Roxanne said: Arbonne is a stair step breakaway comp plan. This means you will always be building or your downline will reach the same level you are at eventually and your income will STOP.
I am fascinated by compensation plans. Each has their advantages and disadvantages. Some are structured to reward reps right out of the gate, while others are slower at the beginning, but offer much better long-term stability.
I love to talk to reps from other companies. I always ask them to explain the compensation plan to me. I have yet to find someone who can adequately explain to me how a comp plan can pay on “infinity”. If you have it figured out, send me a note.
Weren’t there discussions about comparing comp plans on this blog?
Kim — I’d love to take that on as a special assignment.
If I had an extra day each week (unfortunately, I don’t) it would be fun to do a computer simulation, plugging different recruiting / product sales scenarios into different comp plans and watching the output. That could almost be a Master’s thesis.
— Walter (from Appleton, WI)
Walter@NMC
http://www.NuOpportunity.com
It’s all about complete and utter integrity. From the top down. And without a doubt, Arbonne has proven itself to be an ethical and upstanding entitity in this industry of glass walls. Yes, they need and will act on this issue…and yes, we as enlightened MLM Professionals need to uplift and look out for each other.
Remember, it’s not what few unethical individuals do, but the over-all contribution and mission that our companies and distributor organizations stand for and act on that matters.
Let’s all be great “weed pullers” and “good shepherds”, eh?
Passionate Networker….
Putting the products on EBay doesn’t cheapen the product, name brands have been sold on EBay without damage to the companies reputation, Estee Lauder, Dell etc.
What is terrible about this situation is the Sponsor who tells you the best way to start your business is buying the largest pkg the company sells, whether or not they tell you to dump it on EBay.
A certain sponsor for a candleCompany “recommends” that you purchase the largest pkg they sell because it is “the BEST option” for growing a business!
That’s where the responsibility lies, with the sleazy sponsor who makes a suggestion like that.
Wheteher they tell you to dump it (which is bad) or just suggests that its the best way to “build the business” Folks it’s FRONTLOADING! And isn’t that ILLEGAL???
Terri
http://jet2cruise.com
Every business I’ve ever owned was a GREAT investment. I learned! Reading this blog is a great investment for those who might have been considering a larger investment than they could afford.
It’s not the size of the investment, it’s the journey that comes from the investment.
Jay NaPier
Network marketing is supposed to be a people to people business. Sure we do some advertising to get the people to talk to but in the end it is still people talking to people.
My company states in their Policies and Procedures that “…Additionally, you may not sell … products on online auction Web Sites, as this is inconsistent with direct sales philosophy.” (2.15.1)
This is not to say you cannot find our products on the eBay. But the company does monitor the site and deals with the associates who do sell.
Does this sound draconian? I don’t think so. We – like the rest of those in network marketing – get hurt by these quick sales usually at cheaper prices than what was originally paid.
Selling on eBay goes totally against the whole network marketing philosophy and those who do it will only be hurt in the end. Just my 2 cents worth.
A source tells me that this behavior is limited to one group and it is not Arbonne wide.
Hopefully the company and field leadership will take care of business.
The Amway/Quixtar reputation is all you need to look at when considering the volume over integrity.
I am not with Arbonne and I know it happens with alot of uplines. Not necessarily the company. The company tells you what it takes to be at certain levels, but it does not mean you have to create it on your own unless you are not too smart. My upline said to me, if you don’t buy this much, you will not get the commission. I told her to buy it for me them if she is so worried about it. I am not stupid. She leaves me alone now. It is your business and you have to have some good sense. I a company tells you to do this run far away. I have customers that want the product on the spot so I keep an extra one. That is it. If they want it, they have to join and get it. It is that simple. If they don’t want to join and get it at a better price then they will probably not buy anymore after the first one. That is not a customer I want to keep. End of story.
This is a situation I can relate to from personal experience.
I’m a huge advocate of the industry and support everyone and all companies in it but I’ve seen first hand some of what people are
talking about here. It’s happened to me personally.
It’s frustrating for all of us when things like this happen.
I love the profession and career I’ve developed over
the last ten years in Network Marketing. The only
thing I do not like is how our industry is sometimes
perceived by others outside the industry and some
of the people in our industry that are doing things to
tarnish our profession.
I plan to be one of the top leaders that will lead the
charge in uplifting, supporting and encouraging other
colleagues in our industry so that we become a stronger
more unified profession that other professionals will be
proud to be a part of.
Sue Seward
eCommerceHomeBiz
I am going to make one more comment and then let this whole thing rest. :>)
Roxanne talked about Arbonne’s plan being a breakaway and that anyone doing Arbonne therefore can never retire. Well, I can’t speak for other breakaway plans, but I can speak for ours, and what she says is not true. At the RVP and the NVP levels (the two highest) you are allowed to take a certain amount of volume from each leg in order to maintain your maintenance for you level. For example, if you are a NVP and you have someone direct to you that promoted to the NVP level, then you are allowed to take 40,000 of their volume to account towards your 160,000 maintenance. Note here as well, that you still get PAID on your promoted NVPs TOTAL volume. So, if you do the math, if you promote 4 NVP direct to you, then you can officially “retire” and go to the beach because each of your 4 will give you 40,000 which will equal your 160,000 maintenace requirement for being a NVP yourself.
Clear as mud? Got to love comp plans!
Healthy Approach